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Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By k33n3y - 19-02-2022 01:28

Surely as a community we can come together to get the devs attention on how poor this wing tactic is? Now I know for certain youll come here and try and argue it isn't as superior as you think. But I cant see or read any evidence against it. I'm seeing more and more how poor the game engine and how heavily weighted it is towards the wing tactics. It needs changing to force us3rs to need two wingers to start and balance things out. I mean is the long tactic even a tactic at this point? Or is it simply SP and wing with wing being far superior. I'm genuinely so close to leaving. I actually don't see the point in playing. I'm seeing old users re join to find the the game engine is it's same rubbish self it was 3 or 4 years ago. I'm first hand seeing myself lose to inferior teams employing the wing tactic. Some of the results are genuinely laughable. I cant even. How there are only 3 tactics is beyond me anyway. They've not implemented any suggestions for a long time. Like who owns this game? Can we come together to give an open letter to whoever owns the game to sell it to someone with passion?Surely as a community we can come together to get the devs attention on how poor this wing tactic is?

Now I know for certain youll come here and try and argue it isn't as superior as you think.

But I cant see or read any evidence against it.

I'm seeing more and more how poor the game engine and how heavily weighted it is towards the wing tactics.

It needs changing to force us3rs to need two wingers to start and balance things out.

I mean is the long tactic even a tactic at this point? Or is it simply SP and wing with wing being far superior.

I'm genuinely so close to leaving. I actually don't see the point in playing. I'm seeing old users re join to find the the game engine is it's same rubbish self it was 3 or 4 years ago.

I'm first hand seeing myself lose to inferior teams employing the wing tactic. Some of the results are genuinely laughable. I cant even.

How there are only 3 tactics is beyond me anyway.

They've not implemented any suggestions for a long time. Like who owns this game? Can we come together to give an open letter to whoever owns the game to sell it to someone with passion?

 

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Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By jere92 - 19-02-2022 03:03

Please leave we don't need your toxic attidute towards the game.. they already told us they would maybe do something with sim if you aren't able to wait you shouldn't be around long term management games..Please leave we don't need your toxic attidute towards the game..

they already told us they would maybe do something with sim if you aren't able to wait you shouldn't be around long term management games..

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By k33n3y - 19-02-2022 03:08

Where and when? What are you going on about toxic? The game from what I gathered hasn't changed in how many years? Yet you are happy with that?Where and when?

What are you going on about toxic?

The game from what I gathered hasn't changed in how many years?

Yet you are happy with that?

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By douglaskampl - 19-02-2022 05:55

[BRAU18]
President

I would never ignore you dear. Wing tactics are more efficient than the others, yes. But we keep playing anyway because the game is fun, regardless of the wing tactics debate. I was going to say that you should quit if you don't find the game fun, but you clearly like it since you are always posting here. So my advice is: start using wing tactics. Do as they do. Copy their tactics and modify them to your liking. Changes in the sim could happen, but to make those changes is probably not as easy as you may think. Btw, U18 matches and competitions don't favour wing tactics that much (in fact, I find short passing to be way better in this case). Perhaps you could have some fun in the U18 world if you really hate wingers (at the cost of some power tokens tho). I can tell you will have a lot of fun beating the wing merchants…I would never ignore you dear.

Wing tactics are more efficient than the others, yes.

But we keep playing anyway because the game is fun, regardless of the wing tactics debate.

I was going to say that you should quit if you don't find the game fun, but you clearly like it since you are always posting here. So my advice is: start using wing tactics. Do as they do. Copy their tactics and modify them to your liking.

Changes in the sim could happen, but to make those changes is probably not as easy as you may think.

Btw, U18 matches and competitions don't favour wing tactics that much (in fact, I find short passing to be way better in this case). Perhaps you could have some fun in the U18 world if you really hate wingers (at the cost of some power tokens tho). I can tell you will have a lot of fun beating the wing merchants…

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By chucky06 - 19-02-2022 06:04

[AUSNZ]
President

Teams have spend years of time and lots of money building squads around wing tactic efficiency. I for one would be very angry if they changed the sim in the next few seasons as if spend a lot of time and money on players to play wings effectively. I think the sooner you conform and start playing wings the more fun you’ll have and the better your results. #cantbeatthemjointhem It’s a management game at the end of the day and only resembles football marginally. That’s what you have to take it for and nothing moreTeams have spend years of time and lots of money building squads around wing tactic efficiency. I for one would be very angry if they changed the sim in the next few seasons as if spend a lot of time and money on players to play wings effectively.

I think the sooner you conform and start playing wings the more fun you’ll have and the better your results. #cantbeatthemjointhem

It’s a management game at the end of the day and only resembles football marginally. That’s what you have to take it for and nothing more

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By jere92 - 19-02-2022 08:24

"Our aim is that 2022 will be the best year possible. And together with all of you, we think we can make it happen. Yes, we want to look at the SIM too, but we rather under-promise and over-deliver than the other way around." If you can't read what is writen to you please stop this non sense... You make childish posts about wingzone when you can't play The game please just please learn to play the game before you open any topics please...... Or maybe i should say you don't know how to read Even If there was 20 top managers guiding you as you obviously lack the ability to read what they have writen to you... About toxic behaviour maybe you should actualy spend Time learning The game instead of writing to forums about your lack of knoweledge about The game... We dont Need babys around crying about everything... Atleast when The issues is at your own hands.. its easy to blame The game Even tho you clearly have no clue what your talking about.. More to that toxic behaviour who wants to be around people that complain about things they clearly dont understand. You are makikg this game less appealing to players that visits forums as you whine about things that are just skill issues.. those topics should be More like maybe I should learn some basics or how to counter wings? Not The way you present them.."Our aim is that 2022 will be the best year possible. And together with all of you, we think we can make it happen. Yes, we want to look at the SIM too, but we rather under-promise and over-deliver than the other way around."

If you can't read what is writen to you please stop this non sense...

You make childish posts about wingzone when you can't play The game please just please learn to play the game before you open any topics please...... Or maybe i should say you don't know how to read Even If there was 20 top managers guiding you as you obviously lack the ability to read what they have writen to you...

About toxic behaviour maybe you should actualy spend Time learning The game instead of writing to forums about your lack of knoweledge about The game... We dont Need babys around crying about everything... Atleast when The issues is at your own hands.. its easy to blame The game Even tho you clearly have no clue what your talking about..

More to that toxic behaviour who wants to be around people that complain about things they clearly dont understand. You are makikg this game less appealing to players that visits forums as you whine about things that are just skill issues.. those topics should be More like maybe I should learn some basics or how to counter wings? Not The way you present them..

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By k33n3y - 19-02-2022 12:05

Good swerve Jeres. Pretend the game isn't one dimensional and blame it on my skills. My bad if I'm not interested in going with the crowd and play wings. But there is that elite attitude claiming I don't know how to play the game. I'm playing the game as intended and highlighting the widely known fault with the game engine. However you see it how you want.Good swerve Jeres. Pretend the game isn't one dimensional and blame it on my skills.

My bad if I'm not interested in going with the crowd and play wings.

But there is that elite attitude claiming I don't know how to play the game. I'm playing the game as intended and highlighting the widely known fault with the game engine.

However you see it how you want.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By k33n3y - 19-02-2022 12:08

Thank you others for your genuine input. I understand you have built teams around this exploit. You've done what is necessary to succeed in the current state of the game. However I refuse to conform to wings. Its one dimensional and boring imo. I like the slick short passing style. However the inbalance is crazy. I mean long ball is not even a tactic. That imo tells me the game is essentially broken. How can you have wing tactic and only need 1 winger?Thank you others for your genuine input.

I understand you have built teams around this exploit. You've done what is necessary to succeed in the current state of the game.

However I refuse to conform to wings. Its one dimensional and boring imo. I like the slick short passing style. However the inbalance is crazy.

I mean long ball is not even a tactic.

That imo tells me the game is essentially broken. How can you have wing tactic and only need 1 winger?

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By jere92 - 19-02-2022 13:32

I have played last 17 seasons short passing and i see your childish behaviour as utterly disgusting joke. If you roam around these forums with only goal to create hate towards the game and not learn the game. I actualy dont know how to help you anymore as you dont listen any reasoning. Imo for opening multiple hate threads against The game should get you community banned for couple of weeksI have played last 17 seasons short passing and i see your childish behaviour as utterly disgusting joke. If you roam around these forums with only goal to create hate towards the game and not learn the game. I actualy dont know how to help you anymore as you dont listen any reasoning. Imo for opening multiple hate threads against The game should get you community banned for couple of weeks

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By k33n3y - 19-02-2022 14:18

Hate threads and toxic. I think you've lost your way in life.Hate threads and toxic. I think you've lost your way in life.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By jere92 - 19-02-2022 14:40

Man listen to yourself when you open these threads. "Who is in favor changing The games name to wingzone" what is that other than useless most pointless suggestion opening in the history of managerzone only creating useless hate towards the game. Point of this thread? Just to shit on The game people have studied for years while you arent able to learn it even if it was put straight into your mouth with a spoon like they feed babies. Now the knowledge is all over your face as you refused to eat it. And you just keep crying and crying here on forums..Man listen to yourself when you open these threads. "Who is in favor changing The games name to wingzone" what is that other than useless most pointless suggestion opening in the history of managerzone only creating useless hate towards the game.

Point of this thread? Just to shit on The game people have studied for years while you arent able to learn it even if it was put straight into your mouth with a spoon like they feed babies. Now the knowledge is all over your face as you refused to eat it. And you just keep crying and crying here on forums..

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By k33n3y - 19-02-2022 14:46

Elitist attitude again, yet I'm the disgusting and toxic one. I made a valid OP and here you are angry and mad etc. You really took a wrong turn in life.Elitist attitude again, yet I'm the disgusting and toxic one.

I made a valid OP and here you are angry and mad etc.

You really took a wrong turn in life.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By jere92 - 19-02-2022 15:19

Opening multiple spam threads about wing tactics aren't valid stay in The original you dont Need to open everyday new thread to tell us how you still havent found counter to wing play..Opening multiple spam threads about wing tactics aren't valid stay in The original you dont Need to open everyday new thread to tell us how you still havent found counter to wing play..

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By k33n3y - 19-02-2022 15:25

The game has been exploited due to the strength of wings. Multiple people say so and yet you are here telling me I'm an awful manager. The game was intended and designed to be able to utilise all 3 tactics. Long ball isn't even a tactic and short passing is inferior to wing. So everyone adapted and used wings. Yet you want to abuse a manager by saying he isn't good enough etc. That elitist mentality is exactly why maybe we've just lived with wings the way it is. My OP stands. I'd love to hear some other people's input.The game has been exploited due to the strength of wings. Multiple people say so and yet you are here telling me I'm an awful manager.

The game was intended and designed to be able to utilise all 3 tactics. Long ball isn't even a tactic and short passing is inferior to wing. So everyone adapted and used wings.

Yet you want to abuse a manager by saying he isn't good enough etc. That elitist mentality is exactly why maybe we've just lived with wings the way it is.

My OP stands. I'd love to hear some other people's input.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By elusive - 19-02-2022 15:26

[MZ]

[img]https://c.tenor.com/V7QYWu-WQ-4AAAAd/kenan-thompson-eating-popcorn.gif[/img]

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By jere92 - 19-02-2022 15:42

Any competition has its meta and refusing to use those tactics just put you behind The competition. I dont use wing tactics but i dont run around complaining about it i try to counter it. Even If we had balance changes something would still pop up as meta and we would shift around it. Something will always be better than the other and people would just use the new superior tactic to play. Thats how competition goes in general whatever The competition is.Any competition has its meta and refusing to use those tactics just put you behind The competition. I dont use wing tactics but i dont run around complaining about it i try to counter it. Even If we had balance changes something would still pop up as meta and we would shift around it. Something will always be better than the other and people would just use the new superior tactic to play. Thats how competition goes in general whatever The competition is.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By douglaskampl - 19-02-2022 15:46

[BRAU18]
President

You refuse to embrace wing play, but… you gotta fight fire with fire… And then you can rub it in everyone's faces afterwards.You refuse to embrace wing play, but… you gotta fight fire with fire…

And then you can rub it in everyone's faces afterwards.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By swaan1 - 19-02-2022 19:37

[STARS]

st stop complain and just play the game, if you think wing tactics is so superior. just build a team and win everything! (And i can gurantee you will miss alot of good tactics if you never use shortpass or longball)st

k33n3y wrote:

The game has been exploited due to the strength of wings. Multiple people say so and yet you are here telling me I'm an awful manager.

The game was intended and designed to be able to utilise all 3 tactics. Long ball isn't even a tactic and short passing is inferior to wing. So everyone adapted and used wings.

Yet you want to abuse a manager by saying he isn't good enough etc. That elitist mentality is exactly why maybe we've just lived with wings the way it is.
My OP stands. I'd love to hear some other people's input.

stop complain and just play the game, if you think wing tactics is so superior. just build a team and win everything! (And i can gurantee you will miss alot of good tactics if you never use shortpass or longball)

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By dagriggstar (RA) - 20-02-2022 16:25

[AUSNZ]

I would argue long balls actually plays like wide short passing. Definitely a valid tactic choice. For example - I am currently opening with long balls, switching to short passing after 30 minutes and finally playing a wing tactic to close games. Whether it should function as wide short passing is a separate issue, of course.I would argue long balls actually plays like wide short passing. Definitely a valid tactic choice. For example - I am currently opening with long balls, switching to short passing after 30 minutes and finally playing a wing tactic to close games.

Whether it should function as wide short passing is a separate issue, of course.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By viedras20 - 20-02-2022 16:59

[LT-Cm]

Well exactly, many managers like the game in general, so they just accept the reality that wing tactics are superior and try to adapt to this reality in best possible ways. Nothing elitist about it. I understand that for you, as a relatively new user, this rigidity of the sim in terms of tactics seems a bit absurd having just found it out, but what can you do - either quit or just find other things to enjoy in this game. I, for example, use the most basic wing tactic all the time without paying much attention to tactics in general. The focus is on player development and finding good prospects on thr transfer market. And it's quite fun this way.

k33n3y wrote:

The game has been exploited due to the strength of wings. Multiple people say so and yet you are here telling me I'm an awful manager.

The game was intended and designed to be able to utilise all 3 tactics. Long ball isn't even a tactic and short passing is inferior to wing. So everyone adapted and used wings.

Yet you want to abuse a manager by saying he isn't good enough etc. That elitist mentality is exactly why maybe we've just lived with wings the way it is.

My OP stands. I'd love to hear some other people's input.

Well exactly, many managers like the game in general, so they just accept the reality that wing tactics are superior and try to adapt to this reality in best possible ways. Nothing elitist about it. I understand that for you, as a relatively new user, this rigidity of the sim in terms of tactics seems a bit absurd having just found it out, but what can you do - either quit or just find other things to enjoy in this game.

I, for example, use the most basic wing tactic all the time without paying much attention to tactics in general. The focus is on player development and finding good prospects on thr transfer market. And it's quite fun this way.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By darkline - 20-02-2022 20:51

[FLUSA]
President

In my opinion all tactical styles should be balanced, so you can use the tactics that better suit your team instead of having to build a team around a tactics, it would be much more fun to be able to play all sort of tactical approaches. Also, there are 3 options in the game and not just 2, everyone forgets there is also the option to play "Long Passing" which unfortunately is so poorly implemented in the game that no one even remembers it exists.In my opinion all tactical styles should be balanced, so you can use the tactics that better suit your team instead of having to build a team around a tactics, it would be much more fun to be able to play all sort of tactical approaches.

Also, there are 3 options in the game and not just 2, everyone forgets there is also the option to play "Long Passing" which unfortunately is so poorly implemented in the game that no one even remembers it exists.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By milsu - 20-02-2022 21:05

[Ex Yu]

I play short passes in first half, and long passes in second half, because theoretically long passes should be more effective when players' stamina is lower, at least that was the idea. But I can't really tell that some of these two tactics is better. I find wing tactic to be ugly, so I am not attracted to try to play it. It is just *puff* the ball to winger, *puff* the ball on attacker's head and shoot a header, and just that 90 minutes, really boring and annoying. But I do find that wing tactic is more difficult to set up correctly and less managers play it, but I find it also much more effective, and I usually lose against wing tactic more than 90%. And to counter the wing tactic properly, I need to weaken my short passes tactic with widening my defense, but it is still very little better against wing tactic, like I will just lose with less goals conceded.I play short passes in first half, and long passes in second half, because theoretically long passes should be more effective when players' stamina is lower, at least that was the idea. But I can't really tell that some of these two tactics is better.

I find wing tactic to be ugly, so I am not attracted to try to play it. It is just *puff* the ball to winger, *puff* the ball on attacker's head and shoot a header, and just that 90 minutes, really boring and annoying. But I do find that wing tactic is more difficult to set up correctly and less managers play it, but I find it also much more effective, and I usually lose against wing tactic more than 90%. And to counter the wing tactic properly, I need to weaken my short passes tactic with widening my defense, but it is still very little better against wing tactic, like I will just lose with less goals conceded.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By k33n3y - 20-02-2022 21:44

Please keep these thoughts coming. This is exactly the discussion I was hoping to open up. I'm just trying to figure out why everyone would just make do with the game in its current state. Did people just stop caring? So they adapted everything against wings. I think someone highlighted a couple of things. Yes I'm shocked at this game and its developed to wings. So I'm told to adapt to that. The way wings works tells me it's incredibly broken. I mean you don't even need 2 wings. That in itself is a huge red flag. It's like a lot of people found out wings in the way it is. So they said you know what we'll adapt out formations and tactics to counter the one meta tactic. All 3 should be viable. Thats simply not the case. Either people are stubborn and hate wings Like me or they play wings themselves. Or they adapt SP to counter wings and play a format of SP. This is not acceptable imo. But here we are. .really appreciate people's comments. I feel like it's a healthy discussion now. Interested to see if anyone gets benefit from long ball? I see people some form of wings in a game but they claim to still play SP etc. They may play 30 mins or a half as wings. Why? Because eings is meta so can't beat them join them? I wanted this discussion to highlight a huge flaw. All I want is fairness in any game I play. 25 years of browser games and I'm still here wanting the best for peers and people joining the game. Why would the current format want people to stay that are new? Not least wings is so ugly man. Its literally Jose mourinho boring football. Keep the thoughts coming. I'd love to eventually get some traction so a dev will post their opinion on the matter. Or are we settling for the status quo?Please keep these thoughts coming. This is exactly the discussion I was hoping to open up.

I'm just trying to figure out why everyone would just make do with the game in its current state.

Did people just stop caring? So they adapted everything against wings.

I think someone highlighted a couple of things.

Yes I'm shocked at this game and its developed to wings. So I'm told to adapt to that. The way wings works tells me it's incredibly broken. I mean you don't even need 2 wings. That in itself is a huge red flag.

It's like a lot of people found out wings in the way it is. So they said you know what we'll adapt out formations and tactics to counter the one meta tactic. All 3 should be viable. Thats simply not the case. Either people are stubborn and hate wings Like me or they play wings themselves. Or they adapt SP to counter wings and play a format of SP.

This is not acceptable imo. But here we are.
.really appreciate people's comments. I feel like it's a healthy discussion now.

Interested to see if anyone gets benefit from long ball?

I see people some form of wings in a game but they claim to still play SP etc. They may play 30 mins or a half as wings. Why? Because eings is meta so can't beat them join them?

I wanted this discussion to highlight a huge flaw. All I want is fairness in any game I play. 25 years of browser games and I'm still here wanting the best for peers and people joining the game. Why would the current format want people to stay that are new?

Not least wings is so ugly man. Its literally Jose mourinho boring football.

Keep the thoughts coming. I'd love to eventually get some traction so a dev will post their opinion on the matter.

Or are we settling for the status quo?

Sv: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By blavitt_jens (NC) - 21-02-2022 09:06

[SElite]

There is an inevitable question here: Why do virtually ALL world top teams choose to alternate between wings and SP (and many of them LP too) if wings are so superior? Just look at the WLTS. My impression is that the only way to reach real success is by building a strong hybrid team to have tactical flexibility, and that’s the way it should be.There is an inevitable question here: Why do virtually ALL world top teams choose to alternate between wings and SP (and many of them LP too) if wings are so superior? Just look at the WLTS. My impression is that the only way to reach real success is by building a strong hybrid team to have tactical flexibility, and that’s the way it should be.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By chucky06 - 21-02-2022 09:16

[AUSNZ]
President

They do this to create natural variation and to try and exploit any weakness. Changing tactics has a positive effect and a negative effect but it at least makes you not predictable.

blavitt_jens wrote:

There is an inevitable question here: Why do virtually ALL world top teams choose to alternate between wings and SP (and many of them LP too) if wings are so superior? Just look at the WLTS. My impression is that the only way to reach real success is by building a strong hybrid team to have tactical flexibility, and that’s the way it should be.

They do this to create natural variation and to try and exploit any weakness. Changing tactics has a positive effect and a negative effect but it at least makes you not predictable.

Sv: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By blavitt_jens (NC) - 21-02-2022 09:28

[SElite]

Exactly! And isn’t this precisely how it should be to make the game dynamic? Wings might have a small advantage, but far from being the only tactics that works. Wings score more goals per attempt, but SP create more attempts. If W-tactics were absolutely superior, one could expect that no other ones would be used among top teams. Those of us who have been around long enough might remember earlier versions of the sim where there was almost only one single tactic used by everybody. Today we see a myriad of different formations (and people continue coming up with new ones). I find this much more interesting.

chucky06 wrote:

They do this to create natural variation and to try and exploit any weakness. Changing tactics has a positive effect and a negative effect but it at least makes you not predictable.

Exactly! And isn’t this precisely how it should be to make the game dynamic? Wings might have a small advantage, but far from being the only tactics that works. Wings score more goals per attempt, but SP create more attempts. If W-tactics were absolutely superior, one could expect that no other ones would be used among top teams.

Those of us who have been around long enough might remember earlier versions of the sim where there was almost only one single tactic used by everybody. Today we see a myriad of different formations (and people continue coming up with new ones). I find this much more interesting.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By jere92 - 21-02-2022 12:00

The game has 3 ways of defending 3 man line = good against short passing, bad against wings 4 man line = Neutral 5 man line = good against wings, bad against short passing Then there is 2 common ways of attacking. Short passing and wings Then you flip a coin twice. How is your oppoment going to defend and attack. At this point you should scout your oppoment and see what is their common way of play. Okey they mix short passing and wings. Do you want to risk the coin flip and guess how they gonna attack against you or do you opt for neutral. If you see only wing play you go for 5 man line and if you see only short passing you opt for 3 man line. Then you do the same with their defense. What is the most common way they defend? 3 man line ill go for wings, 5 man line ill go for short passing, 4 man line Ill go with the best style for my team. If you defend and attack against your oppoment right you will get the tactical advantage in the match. Here is 4 matches and how our tactics evolved during the season against my top competition in Finnish national cup and premier league. https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1279837578 First match was in national cup. I had won every match before hand and my placement in group was good. My oppoment mostly plays wing tactics but sometimes he also does short passing to mix it. I opted neutral defence and attacked the way my team is built that is short passing. My oppoment played 3 man line with short passing so going for neutral instead of obvious 5 man line gave me probably better defensive capability for this match than the 5 man line. I won 2-3 even tho I got red carded early in match. https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1267807149 Second match was in the league and I was ignorant and opted same tactic as in the cup. My oppoment defended with 3 man line and went from wings this time. That gave him the upper hand on the match and I was lucky to walk away with 1 point after 93 minute goal as the match ended 1-1. https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1279837594&tid=95526 Then we faced third time again in national cup. This time I was pretty sure he was going to go for wings again so I opted for 5 man line with short passing. He went with the same approach as in league game so we both defended others way of attacking right. I ended up winning 1-0 as I defended better I guess. I had ensured my playoff spot already so I didn’t want to reveal my next games tactic here. https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1267807167 We had fourth and final competitive game in league this season against each other so I decided to bring my secret weapon. Even tho my team is built around short passing attacking style I can also play wings. I went to defend his wings with 5 man line and over come his 3 man line with wing attacks. 0-3 win with tactical advantage. Then my team ofc also has 3 man line tactics that didn't show up here cos there was no reason to over commit against wing team with 3 man line defense. Also thats why people do mid match formation changes to have tactical advantage in the match at somepoint of the game. It doesn't have anything to do with wings being superior. Countless times have I been 2-0 lead just to press the trigger to them to change their SP to Wings against my 3 man line to rest of the game defend wrong and lose 2-3 ect.. Maybe I should do formation changes at 2 goal lead to counter this from happening. That also have happened from wings to SP against my 5 man line.The game has 3 ways of defending
3 man line = good against short passing, bad against wings
4 man line = Neutral
5 man line = good against wings, bad against short passing

Then there is 2 common ways of attacking. Short passing and wings

Then you flip a coin twice. How is your oppoment going to defend and attack. At this point you should scout your oppoment and see what is their common way of play. Okey they mix short passing and wings. Do you want to risk the coin flip and guess how they gonna attack against you or do you opt for neutral. If you see only wing play you go for 5 man line and if you see only short passing you opt for 3 man line.

Then you do the same with their defense. What is the most common way they defend? 3 man line ill go for wings, 5 man line ill go for short passing, 4 man line Ill go with the best style for my team.

If you defend and attack against your oppoment right you will get the tactical advantage in the match.

Here is 4 matches and how our tactics evolved during the season against my top competition in Finnish national cup and premier league.

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1279837578

First match was in national cup. I had won every match before hand and my placement in group was good. My oppoment mostly plays wing tactics but sometimes he also does short passing to mix it. I opted neutral defence and attacked the way my team is built that is short passing. My oppoment played 3 man line with short passing so going for neutral instead of obvious 5 man line gave me probably better defensive capability for this match than the 5 man line. I won 2-3 even tho I got red carded early in match.

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1267807149

Second match was in the league and I was ignorant and opted same tactic as in the cup. My oppoment defended with 3 man line and went from wings this time. That gave him the upper hand on the match and I was lucky to walk away with 1 point after 93 minute goal as the match ended 1-1.

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1279837594&tid=95526

Then we faced third time again in national cup. This time I was pretty sure he was going to go for wings again so I opted for 5 man line with short passing. He went with the same approach as in league game so we both defended others way of attacking right. I ended up winning 1-0 as I defended better I guess. I had ensured my playoff spot already so I didn’t want to reveal my next games tactic here.

https://www.managerzone.com/?p=match&sub=result&mid=1267807167

We had fourth and final competitive game in league this season against each other so I decided to bring my secret weapon. Even tho my team is built around short passing attacking style I can also play wings. I went to defend his wings with 5 man line and over come his 3 man line with wing attacks. 0-3 win with tactical advantage.

Then my team ofc also has 3 man line tactics that didn't show up here cos there was no reason to over commit against wing team with 3 man line defense.

Also thats why people do mid match formation changes to have tactical advantage in the match at somepoint of the game. It doesn't have anything to do with wings being superior. Countless times have I been 2-0 lead just to press the trigger to them to change their SP to Wings against my 3 man line to rest of the game defend wrong and lose 2-3 ect.. Maybe I should do formation changes at 2 goal lead to counter this from happening. That also have happened from wings to SP against my 5 man line.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By webregas - 26-02-2022 00:32

[ENG]

It’s not an invalid frustration to be anti wings. @keeny - To show some support, I for one have never played wings out of principle/ it’s not as enjoyable but it does makes success harder to take this approach. At a world league/ cup level there are very few examples of teams in the final stages not playing wings. However, I’ve had a 2nd, 3rd and 4th EPL finish over the last few seasons so you can be competitive. Willingale also a good example of a side that doesn’t play wings but won the EPL with the current sim. As one of the posts suggested to change the sim would probably require a years (4 seasons) notice to users who have invested in wing orientated players at great cost. So my advice would be don’t give up but if you want to be competitive with short passing it’s a long term investment in your youth academy. The suggestion to prioriise U18 & U21s in parallel to this is a good one. You’ll have success there whilst you bring long term prospects through. And if it helps.. play a high line with the fastest defenders you can afford more often - good luck 👍It’s not an invalid frustration to be anti wings.

@keeny - To show some support, I for one have never played wings out of principle/ it’s not as enjoyable but it does makes success harder to take this approach.

At a world league/ cup level there are very few examples of teams in the final stages not playing wings.

However, I’ve had a 2nd, 3rd and 4th EPL finish over the last few seasons so you can be competitive. Willingale also a good example of a side that doesn’t play wings but won the EPL with the current sim.

As one of the posts suggested to change the sim would probably require a years (4 seasons) notice to users who have invested in wing orientated players at great cost.

So my advice would be don’t give up but if you want to be competitive with short passing it’s a long term investment in your youth academy. The suggestion to prioriise U18 & U21s in parallel to this is a good one. You’ll have success there whilst you bring long term prospects through.

And if it helps.. play a high line with the fastest defenders you can afford more often - good luck 👍

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By k33n3y - 26-02-2022 00:40

Thanks Web. Appreciate your thoughts. I'm learning and training every day. Seems I've quickly settled in div 1 football. But prem will very tougher while not 100% adopting wings. Thank youThanks Web. Appreciate your thoughts.

I'm learning and training every day.

Seems I've quickly settled in div 1 football. But prem will very tougher while not 100% adopting wings.

Thank you

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 20-03-2022 18:58

[POLSKA]

I was since remember a fan of a short tactic. I could creat anti wings tactics that were defeating top teams from top leagues. Then things changed and wings started to be superior. I was sick of blocking the winger perfectly the SC were like 20-6 for me and the scores were something like 2-2. Short passing creates much but is not effective. Head shot is like one on one chance and one on one chance in short pass is like a shot from half of the pitch hah. So i had to addapt and now building wing team. This crazy results i had enough of it. Having 3 strikers with 9-10shoting 9 or 10 inteligence 9 b control etc and seeing them kicking the keeper instead of a goal was bad. Short pass is history. 8 heads will score you more goals than 20 one and one in short.I was since remember a fan of a short tactic. I could creat anti wings tactics that were defeating top teams from top leagues. Then things changed and wings started to be superior. I was sick of blocking the winger perfectly the SC were like 20-6 for me and the scores were something like 2-2. Short passing creates much but is not effective. Head shot is like one on one chance and one on one chance in short pass is like a shot from half of the pitch hah. So i had to addapt and now building wing team. This crazy results i had enough of it. Having 3 strikers with 9-10shoting 9 or 10 inteligence 9 b control etc and seeing them kicking the keeper instead of a goal was bad. Short pass is history. 8 heads will score you more goals than 20 one and one in short.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By k33n3y - 20-03-2022 21:35

I won a game today 5-4. 20 shots to 6. Lol It's just a joke at this stage. At least I won.I won a game today 5-4.

20 shots to 6. Lol

It's just a joke at this stage. At least I won.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By webregas - 21-03-2022 22:39

[ENG]

The other note on wings.. Most teams do not have high heading for their central defender. Think about how much more tackling as a stat is valued! However, get a defender with 9+ heading and you’ll see a massive difference vs wings.The other note on wings..

Most teams do not have high heading for their central defender. Think about how much more tackling as a stat is valued!

However, get a defender with 9+ heading and you’ll see a massive difference vs wings.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By k33n3y - 22-03-2022 00:33

Playing against wings. Strategically place your defenders and DMs. Your FB need speed9+. Your CB(s) need heading 9+ combined with minimum 8 PI I'd say.Playing against wings.

Strategically place your defenders and DMs.

Your FB need speed9+. Your CB(s) need heading 9+ combined with minimum 8 PI I'd say.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By douglaskampl - 22-03-2022 06:18

[BRAU18]
President

Sorry, but how does that make a difference? From what I see, the cross either goes straight into the striker (and he heads the ball) or the winger misplaces the cross, leaving an opportunity to clear the ball. There are never instances in which the defender actively tries to head the ball away after an accurately placed cross. Or am I seeing things wrong?

webregas wrote:

The other note on wings..

Most teams do not have high heading for their central defender. Think about how much more tackling as a stat is valued!

However, get a defender with 9+ heading and you’ll see a massive difference vs wings.

Sorry, but how does that make a difference?

From what I see, the cross either goes straight into the striker (and he heads the ball) or the winger misplaces the cross, leaving an opportunity to clear the ball. There are never instances in which the defender actively tries to head the ball away after an accurately placed cross.

Or am I seeing things wrong?

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By douglaskampl - 22-03-2022 06:20

[BRAU18]
President

It seems that all defenders or even cdms need to be fast anyway. If your wingback/fullback doesn't tackle the winger, a cb/cdm will run towards him.

k33n3y wrote:

Playing against wings.

Strategically place your defenders and DMs.

Your FB need speed9+. Your CB(s) need heading 9+ combined with minimum 8 PI I'd say.

It seems that all defenders or even cdms need to be fast anyway. If your wingback/fullback doesn't tackle the winger, a cb/cdm will run towards him.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By lukaszsz182 (RA) (NCA) - 22-03-2022 21:09

[POLSKA]

In order for defender to win headers vs striker he need high play inteligence. Dont think heading has something to do with it.In order for defender to win headers vs striker he need high play inteligence. Dont think heading has something to do with it.

Odp: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By nonpler - 11-04-2022 05:31

[POLSKA]

I care about this game so I have to firmly object. First, all three tactical styles work great. Yes, the simulator is not perfect, it should be improved, but not changed. And this is not a joke, I mean it :) One season was enough for me to find the optimal dad and understand a little bit of the simulator. The simulator is not logical in human terms, but in its own way. So I repeat: we don't want to change the simulator !! Lest it were, I don't play using wings. I play long passes and beat stronger teams sometimes :) Good luck to everyone !! And forgive me my english.I care about this game so I have to firmly object. First, all three tactical styles work great. Yes, the simulator is not perfect, it should be improved, but not changed. And this is not a joke, I mean it :) One season was enough for me to find the optimal dad and understand a little bit of the simulator. The simulator is not logical in human terms, but in its own way.

So I repeat: we don't want to change the simulator !!


Lest it were, I don't play using wings. I play long passes and beat stronger teams sometimes :) Good luck to everyone !! And forgive me my english.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By k33n3y - 20-04-2022 23:12

Not even sure why I bother even posting. But here we are again. The wing tactic is beyond cracked. It takes no skill and is incredibly mundane football. But the goals to shot ratio is stupidly high on all fronts. Its not right. Any level I play at I lose to wings around 90% of the time. Its not even a game of football. Its just a joke at this stage. I do play certain formations to counter it but I shouldn't always have to. Wings should have to adapt to SP which they don't have to. That is where the problem is. If you play wings. You can put the same 3 boring players cm wing and attacker. You can play that way and not have to adapt your formation and play all your league games and cup games. Very little input needed. Now you play SP. You have to research your opponents and see if they play SP or wings. If they play mix you're guessing. This is not equal because wing teams don't Care and don't have to adapt only SP teams do. So for every league and Cup game. There is an ever changing formation and tactics to try and be semi competitive. I'm so sick of it. If you don't think wing play is the meta then you're simply clueless. At what point does the devs step in. I'm so sick of this.Not even sure why I bother even posting.

But here we are again. The wing tactic is beyond cracked.

It takes no skill and is incredibly mundane football. But the goals to shot ratio is stupidly high on all fronts. Its not right.

Any level I play at I lose to wings around 90% of the time. Its not even a game of football. Its just a joke at this stage.

I do play certain formations to counter it but I shouldn't always have to. Wings should have to adapt to SP which they don't have to. That is where the problem is. If you play wings. You can put the same 3 boring players cm wing and attacker. You can play that way and not have to adapt your formation and play all your league games and cup games.

Very little input needed.

Now you play SP. You have to research your opponents and see if they play SP or wings. If they play mix you're guessing. This is not equal because wing teams don't Care and don't have to adapt only SP teams do.

So for every league and Cup game. There is an ever changing formation and tactics to try and be semi competitive. I'm so sick of it.

If you don't think wing play is the meta then you're simply clueless.

At what point does the devs step in.

I'm so sick of this.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By douglaskampl - 21-04-2022 03:03

[BRAU18]
President

Are you talking about your latest league match?Are you talking about your latest league match?

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By k33n3y - 21-04-2022 03:12

No Douglas. I've seen it since I started this thread my bro. U18, U21, U23, cup comps and league games. It does not matter which way you look at it. Its constant.No Douglas. I've seen it since I started this thread my bro.

U18, U21, U23, cup comps and league games. It does not matter which way you look at it. Its constant.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By swaan1 - 21-04-2022 09:38

[STARS]

If you only play sp you loose. IF you play only wp you loose. Have a hybrid setup and you win. That seems pretty baklänges to me. IF you Are look on effectivness wp vs sp you will always be sadIf you only play sp you loose. IF you play only wp you loose.
Have a hybrid setup and you win. That seems pretty baklänges to me. IF you Are look on effectivness wp vs sp you will always be sad

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By ashleyhughes - 21-04-2022 12:58

[LEGEND]

That's interesting as I did a little experiment in the EPL last season, I played sp and another team played wings and both of us returned at the same time. The wing team got 17 points more than mine. My conclusion is wings are still superior, although not as overpowered as they used to be but still likely to win more games.

swaan1 wrote:

If you only play sp you loose. IF you play only wp you loose.

That's interesting as I did a little experiment in the EPL last season, I played sp and another team played wings and both of us returned at the same time. The wing team got 17 points more than mine.

My conclusion is wings are still superior, although not as overpowered as they used to be but still likely to win more games.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By brock123 - 21-04-2022 16:08

[ENG]

I have followed this thread for a while now and i rarely post on the forums but this subject is so so true. I myself play sp tactics, however wing play is by far more superior.. iv played mz since it first began, this sim is so wing play based now its unreal. It does get boring aswell, knowing that someones team is absolutely garbage, but because they have a 9/10 aerial passer on the wing, and a centre forward with 9/10 heading this sim caters for that 👍I have followed this thread for a while now and i rarely post on the forums but this subject is so so true. I myself play sp tactics, however wing play is by far more superior.. iv played mz since it first began, this sim is so wing play based now its unreal. It does get boring aswell, knowing that someones team is absolutely garbage, but because they have a 9/10 aerial passer on the wing, and a centre forward with 9/10 heading this sim caters for that 👍

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By k33n3y - 21-04-2022 18:50

Tbf the devs won't even see this. The condescending message I got back from Admin has to make you laugh. #agendaTbf the devs won't even see this.

The condescending message I got back from Admin has to make you laugh.

#agenda

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By rockstarroberts - 21-04-2022 19:44

You don't need to have a hybrid setup if you know what you're doing.

swaan1 wrote:

If you only play sp you loose. IF you play only wp you loose.
Have a hybrid setup and you win. That seems pretty baklänges to me. IF you Are look on effectivness wp vs sp you will always be sad

You don't need to have a hybrid setup if you know what you're doing.

Sv: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By tiger13 - 22-04-2022 15:42

[LEGEND]

k33n3y Strange to criticize a type of tactic here, when it is so obvious that you do not even try to find your best tactic against the wing😲 The balance between SP and Wing are very good, but of course one must have the right players for the specific tactics.k33n3y
Strange to criticize a type of tactic here, when it is so obvious that you do not even try to find your best tactic against the wing😲
The balance between SP and Wing are very good, but of course one must have the right players for the specific tactics.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By douglaskampl - 22-04-2022 16:55

[BRAU18]
President

Man, stopping a winger is not that hard. But if you're just complaining at the fact that it's bland asf then I get you.Man, stopping a winger is not that hard.

But if you're just complaining at the fact that it's bland asf then I get you.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By jere92 - 22-04-2022 18:35

Which is more bland and boring.. running through middle or running through wings all the time? If they are running only through wings you slap them with 5 man defence line and if they only run through middle you slap them with 3 man defence line. If they mix, the game gets interesting. Wings only do better cos teams that doesn't change their defence line from 3 gets over run by them. 5 man defence line covers also something against middle so should you keeney change for 5 man defence line and run with it in every match so you don't need to scout that much?Which is more bland and boring.. running through middle or running through wings all the time? If they are running only through wings you slap them with 5 man defence line and if they only run through middle you slap them with 3 man defence line. If they mix, the game gets interesting. Wings only do better cos teams that doesn't change their defence line from 3 gets over run by them. 5 man defence line covers also something against middle so should you keeney change for 5 man defence line and run with it in every match so you don't need to scout that much?

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By k33n3y - 22-04-2022 18:42

A 5 man defence allows a SP passing team to walk all over you. It's like rock paper scissors but everyone knows rock is meta.A 5 man defence allows a SP passing team to walk all over you. It's like rock paper scissors but everyone knows rock is meta.

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By jere92 - 22-04-2022 18:53

No it doesn't atleast the same way leaving wings open does. You atleast have players there to stop those. Ofc its not that effective as 3 man line but its better than having no defenders there at all. Myself I play most of my group stage play in cups that I don't have time or don't care enough to scout my oppoments with 5-3-2 short passing. I don't leave myself vunerable to wing attacks with the cost of little less effectiveness against short passing. Using 3 man defence line should always be scouted manouver to counter short passing..No it doesn't atleast the same way leaving wings open does. You atleast have players there to stop those. Ofc its not that effective as 3 man line but its better than having no defenders there at all.

Myself I play most of my group stage play in cups that I don't have time or don't care enough to scout my oppoments with 5-3-2 short passing. I don't leave myself vunerable to wing attacks with the cost of little less effectiveness against short passing. Using 3 man defence line should always be scouted manouver to counter short passing..

Re: Tactics - Wing tactic( Do not ignore)

By k33n3y - 22-04-2022 19:44

5-3-2 might mean I don't have to change team for every game. So more effective in groups. I've made it out of a few groups in the last few seasons but get stomped on in some groups also. Can I ask if people are changing and adapting formations for all games? Just league games? Just knockout games etc?5-3-2 might mean I don't have to change team for every game. So more effective in groups.

I've made it out of a few groups in the last few seasons but get stomped on in some groups also.

Can I ask if people are changing and adapting formations for all games? Just league games? Just knockout games etc?

 

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